Curse

Ka Tet · May 22, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Wow, just took a look at the update notes. Huge passive interrupts and retarded e-denial. It looks like the team of 1,000 monkeys that was locked in a room with 1,000 typewriters, attempting to replicate a Shakespeare manuscript were diverted from their original task and put to work doing skill balances.

Socrates The Mauler · May 22, 2010, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Gotta go with OP man Anet is inconsistent.

I could care less about a mesmer. I could play the game all day long and not encounter a single mesmer skill, from a player, or monster, if I so choose.

But red rock candy, man thats just wrong. They are trying to shoehorn consets into some archaic formula they call "balance."

Red rock candy has been around for about 1 year now, since Nicholas started handing them out. They are already "balanced" in that they are not available by the stack load. One cannot just load on them and "imbalance" the game.

They were working just fine yesterday, no need to nerf 'em today, unless they've been broken all this time.

Couldn't they just add some new "sour rock candy" or something that increases skill recharge times on a player that ate them if they want to inflict this "balance" on us?

Martin Alvito · May 22, 2010, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

As in, are you trying to say that average mission will be finished faster and more efficient with a mesmer with this skill balance build, than with best build Necro or Assassin could provide?

I don't know what the PvE problems with this build are.

I don't particularly care.

The obvious PvP problems with this update can in principle be fixed without affecting you. People are complaining about the PvP side because the update to PvP Mesmers is game-breaking and poorly thought out.

Long story short, Mesmers were the strongest disruptive class before the update. The only reason that Necro and Ele had niches was because they could DPS faster than a Mesmer. That's no longer true, and that's an obvious balance problem.

As for the OP's question: the basic problem is that the devs are clearly no longer attempting to produce balance. Nightfall was obscenely overpowered at release, and that was almost certainly a reaction to the disappointing sales of Factions (which was relatively underpowered at release). This created a situation where most older skills ceased to be competitive. In response, the Live Team has repeatedly buffed unloved skills to make them viable...but regularly overshoots the mark on individual skills and then refuses to correct these errors in a timely fashion.

The result is an escalating spiral of power creep.

Zarion Silverarrow · May 22, 2010, 03:00 PM // 15:00

ITT: OP whining about something that has been true since Factions.

Everyone knows it;most everyone doesn't like it;most of those that don't like it now don't care since they know whining wont work.

GW is/was unbalanced. Nothing we can do about it unless ask to remove a shizload of consumable items,pve skills,skills that you get for being second prof of something,etc.

QueenofDeath · May 22, 2010, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Master of Magic game is a great example of why imbalance is more fun than balance. It's the best strategic/tactical fantasy game around still after 16 years. Balance causes things to be the same it's like two forces of the same power coming against one another when things are balanced there's no fun in watching that. But you put up a stronger force vs a weaker one and people pay 1000's of dollars to go watch it....WWF wrestling, lopsided football teams, basketball, baseball an on an on. People enjoy imbalance not equality or balance which becomes boring as two brick walls facing one another.

fireflyry · May 22, 2010, 03:45 PM // 15:45

The MMO definition of balance equates to perfection while keeping everyone happy.

Impossibility.

Lishy · May 22, 2010, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Honestly, I love the shifting meta of Guild Wars. It's what keeps me playing. And reality is, there is nothing in life that could achieve true balance since there will always be tiers in any case.

Robin Hood Uk · May 22, 2010, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Master of Magic game is a great example of why imbalance is more fun than balance. It's the best strategic/tactical fantasy game around still after 16 years. Balance causes things to be the same it's like two forces of the same power coming against one another when things are balanced there's no fun in watching that. But you put up a stronger force vs a weaker one and people pay 1000's of dollars to go watch it....WWF wrestling, lopsided football teams, basketball, baseball an on an on. People enjoy imbalance not equality or balance which becomes boring as two brick walls facing one another.

Sure, people pay to watch a 'bad team play a good one', but they pay a hell of a lot more to see the good teams play each other. Because equal matches are more fun. Such as people prefer, and pay more, for the top 2 teams facing each other.

Lithril Ashwalker · May 22, 2010, 03:52 PM // 15:52

lol

u think they are unwanted yet plenty of people are going to make signet sins with massive AoE however capped at 26 ~.~

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Hood Uk

But from what I've heard (Not yet tested in PvE) with the changes it is possible to perma-KD with Psychic Instability, Quickening Zephyr and the newly buffed fast casting. If said is true, then yes, it will be much more efficient with a mesmer.

Nah...you still need energy and godly reflexes. People usually exaggerate after a buff like that, so dont believe everything you read.

Robin Hood Uk · May 22, 2010, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Nah...you still need energy and godly reflexes. People usually exaggerate after a buff like that, so dont believe everything you read.

Thats 3 skills there. The new buffs make for excellent energy management.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Hood Uk

Thats 3 skills there. The new buffs make for excellent energy management.

Read the update. Besides arcane conundrum there are not really any energy management buffs (other than lowering the energy costs of several skills).

Also if you are busy casting the 10e, 2s cast arcane conundrum, then you have stopped casting psychic instability for a while so how can you KD lock?

I think the PvE mesmer skill updates are generally not as overpowered as the rit's. They certainly make mesmers more viable but not really overpowering.

The really powerful effects are from elite skills and if they are too powerful they tend to have short durations to keep them in check.

Skye Marin · May 22, 2010, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I don't understand the fuss about Psychic Instability in PvE.

It's a huge investment to pair it with anything else to make it better, and interrupting takes focus that could otherwise be used to spit out better damage.

Simply using Shared Burden in PvE is just as effective offensively and defensively, and you can play it passively, which means you can spit out other damage while your team has an easier time killing them off.

Robin Hood Uk · May 22, 2010, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

I don't understand the fuss about Psychic Instability in PvE.

It's a huge investment to pair it with anything else to make it better, and interrupting takes focus that could otherwise be used to spit out better damage.

Simply using Shared Burden in PvE is just as effective offensively and defensively, and you can play it passively, which means you can spit out other damage while your team has an easier time killing them off.

With the change to HM (Skills under 2 sec don't have reduced cast time) it really isn't hard to constantly interrupt. Then you have 4 seconds whilst the whole pack (assuming they are balled) are knocked down to spread out some damage.

Greedy Gus · May 22, 2010, 07:42 PM // 19:42

They basically took the easy path with the "meta-shakeup" style of updates instead of actually trying to balance the game. There could be a whole lot of motivations for this like doubting their own abilities, wanting to skew more casual, consciously or subconsciously not wanting GW1 to achieve competitive immortality for its genre (like SF2, CS 1.6, SC1, etc.), or perhaps some straight-up strong ideological positions held by important devs (wanting the game to be far more M:TG style over achieving final PvP balance).

Bryant Again · May 22, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Hood Uk

Just wondering, with every single skill 'balance' out there, all they either do is:
1) Buff a underpowered profession so it is now overpowered
2) Nerf a overpowered proffession so it is now unwanted

Why are these so called balances always just a move from one extreme to the other?
I know A-net are kind of incompetent, but surely they can do better than this.

Multiple reasons.
-GW1 is no longer ANet's focus
-Way too much crap in the game for the small crew to handle
-Too many faulty decisions made in the past put ANet in the place they're in now
-Etc.

Greedy Gus · May 22, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Multiple reasons.
-GW1 is no longer ANet's focus
-Way too much crap in the game for the small crew to handle
-Too many faulty decisions made in the past put ANet in the place they're in now
-Etc.

None of those are valid excuses for the bad decision-making by the "small crew" of people who still do get paid to upkeep & 'balance' GW1. If they made every balance update actually count in the last year, we would be at a far better position compared to using balance updates to shake things up with new imbalanced things that will be nerfed in the next shakeup.

Granted this is a subjective view and there is a MTG-style subset of players in the game who like shiny new broken skills to theorycraft with 4 times a year, but your reasons seem to be excuses for bad balance not an argument that it's good balance. These people shouldn't be let off the hook so easily with defeated lists of past mistakes...otherwise just save on their paychecks entirely if the situation is too far from fixing.